Pete Gillies is a legendary, 18,000-hour helicopter pilot who has previously been honored as the Helicopter Association International’s instructor of the year.
Pete’s MD500 is in hilly terrain when a passenger’s hoodie departs the cabin and goes straight through the tail rotor. Listen to what happens next in this recording captured by Doug Williams at his house with Pete Gillies. Extra puppy noises included 🙂
In a machine that by design generates significant torque – losing helicopter tail rotor thrust is one of the less desirable airborne situations to find yourself in. Have your say or share an experience in the discussion below.
Pete Gillies is a legendary, 18,000-hour helicopter pilot who has previously been honored as the Helicopter Association International’s instructor of the year.
In this interview Doug Williams captures a conversation at his house with Pete Gillies about teaching autorotations. Pete shares a story that highlights the differences, especially in turbine helicopters, between touchdown autorotations with the engine idling and with an engine completely off.
Have you ever flown an auto with the engine completely off – be that on purpose in training or as a real emergency? What differences did you experience? Be part of the discussion below.
Glen White from Eurosafety talks about continuation training and emergency handling
Glen White has been providing recurrency and initial training to helicopter pilots around the world through his company Eurosafety since 2004. He is a strong proponent of the benefit of full touchdown autorotations in training.
Glen first learnt to fly in France in a Bell 47 before picking up roles in flight training, tours based in the Virgin Islands, ship operations, emergency services and as a factory pilot.
One of the things that struck him throughout his career was the lack of high quality post graduation check and training avaliable to many of the small to medium operators in the industry. Hence the idea for Eurosafety was born.
“I get to fly with the best pilots in the industry. It’s a privilege.” – Glen gets to conduct recurrency and initial training with pilots from law enforcement, EMS, utility and charter companies in a number of companies.
In this interview we chat about Glen’s early career, the case for full touchdown autorotations, tips for handling a range of emergencies and what you can do to improve your skills as a helicopter pilot.
[Tweet “AS350B3E helicopter is a monster, nothing better for utility work”]
In this week’s episode:
3:50 Timothy and Tabitha
5:20 Getting a start in aviation in France in a Bell 47
6:50 Flying tours in the Virgin Islands
8:40 Landing on Navy ships in support of the Aegis radar program
9:50 FlightSafety and Eurocopter factory pilot
11:20 EMS S-76 Children’s Hospital Dallas and Tri-state Careflight AS350B3 and BK119
11:50 Mountain rescue incident
14:00 Gap in market for post-graduation check and training
16:00 Overseas training locations and culture
19:00 Types of training and helicopters covered
20:40 Trained reaction to engine failure
21:50 Switching between clockwise / anti-clockwise rotor systems
24:30 Autorotational training – touchdowns vs power recoveries
32:00 Training to runway rather than grass, carbide skid shoes
33:50 Damage to runway surface from run-ons – none
35:50 A typical recurrency day format
38:30 AS350, H130, AS355, EC120, BO105CBS, BO105LS, EC135 Augusta 109E,C,F Bell 260L/F, Bell 205 Types covered (2016)
42:40 Prevalence of engine failures in statistics vs focus spent on in training
46:50 1000s of autos in a year, a very mild event
49:00 Auto method in the AS350 – 100’ flare height
50:00 Common errors during autos
53:20 Hydraulic failure and impact into highrise
54:20 Stuck pedals
58:10 How to be a good pilot and constantly get better
1:01:30 iSafety app for emergency training
59:45 Episode Sponsors trainmorepilots.com
[Tweet “No better helicopter to teach an auto. My mum could do an auto in a Bell 47″]
Glen talks through an autorotation touchdown in a AS350
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HAI Video – Autorotations: Reality Exposed
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Class in session for a AS350 ground theory dayKnow your machines systems – graphics and training aids can greatly improve recallGlen teaching on an AS350B2 initial courseAustralian Defence Force Testing of Squirrel Autorotation Flare Height
What’s your take on full down autos in training? Be part of the conversation about this interview by leaving a comment below.
Pete Gillies is a legendary, 18,000-hour helicopter pilot who has previously been honored as the Helicopter Association International’s instructor of the year.
The difference between an expensive falling brick and a helicopter is rotor RPM. Pete Gillies talks about the importance of aft cyclic in autorotation entry to conserve rotor RPM in this episode.
Depending on where you did your training this might come across as ‘yeah, of course, doesn’t everyone do this’. If that’s you then fantastic and this interview will give you an in depth refresher on the ‘why’ behind it. If you’ve been out of regular autorotation practice for a while or didn’t have this emphasied then you’ll walk away with a new understanding to take on your next flight. There are a number of links further down the page that go on to show that this knowledge may not be as widely spread as it should be.
As with any flying advice you should discuss it with an instructor that you trust if unsure and apply some sense in how to use it – Pete is obviously not trying to say that aft cyclic must be used religiously for example in a hover engine failure.
[Tweet “A bad ending of an autorotation is usually survivable, but a bad beginning is usually not”]
“The Best Kept Secret in the helicopter industry is how critical it is to immediately apply aft cyclic the moment a loss of power to the rotor system is detected. I have been doing my best to spread this word since analyzing the cause of two law-enforcement helicopter accidents that occurred four months apart in 2002. I call it Cyclic Back.
Very few helicopter pilots realize that if, with a total engine failure, the rotor rpm is allowed to fall more than about 5% below low green, the flight is over. OVER. There is no recovery possible regardless of what actions the pilot may take or how high the helicopter is above ground. This fact is not mentioned in the sales literature for helicopters nor in the approved rotorcraft flight manuals. It is not mentioned in any of our FAA publications having to do with how helicopters fly and how to fly them. It is treated as a deep dark secret, unfortunately.
When power is lost to the rotor system, THE MOST IMPORTANT FLIGHT CONTROL IN THE COCKPIT IS THE CYCLIC! It must immediately be brought aft so that the flow of air is upwards through the rotor system. Bottoming the collective does only one thing: It reduces the rate that the rotor rpm is falling. That’s all! It NEVER stops the fall of rotor rpm.
Once the rotor rpm has dropped below the critical point, recovery is not possible. The helicopter continues to descend as the rotor rpm falls towards zero and may, in the case of free-turbine engines as used in the EC135, be seen to turn backwards. The rotor blades will show little if any damage when the wreckage is examined.
And as the rotor rpm slows towards zero during the descent, retreating blade stall enters the picture. The normal Vne chart does not mention rotor rpm; it is assumed it is normal for the standard mode of flight. But when rotor rpm falls, Vne falls with it, so Vne is very possible at airspeeds much below those computed via the chart.
This in turn means that as the rotor rpm is falling during the autorotation, the helicopter will roll in the direction of the retreating blades, or to the left in the case of the EC135. Any attempt by the pilot to correct this with opposite cyclic simply adds additional pitch to the blades that are already stalling, thereby increasing the amount of roll.
When a helicopter pilot is faced with a sudden unannounced engine or drive-line failure, here is what must be done:
1. Cyclic back and pitch down, simultaneously or in that order.
2. Pick a place to land.
3. MAKE THAT SPOT!
What about indicated airspeed. At the beginning of the autorotation, the ONLY speed that matters is that over the wings, meaning, of course, the rotor blades, and this is a function of rotor rpm. Pitot tube airspeed (indicated airspeed) is not important at that time, but yes, once the rotor rpm is solidly in the green, indicated airspeed can be helpful in extending the glide or reducing the rate of descent.
Finally, this: During a normal power-off autorotation, the helicopter will respond to all flight-control movements the same way it would if the helicopter is in a flat-pitch descent with the engine running. The only thing it won’t do is a sustained climb. But it will stop, back up, turn in any direction, etc. So when I say MAKE THAT SPOT, I’m saying use the maneuverability of the helicopter just as you would if the engine was running. There is more to life than straight-ins, 90s and 180s!” – extract from a post that Pete made on PPRuNe in 2013 (with a typically PPRuNe spirited debate that runs to 28 pages)
As for in Pete’s earlier interview back in Episode 39 we have Douglas Williams to thank for capturing this audio.
[Tweet “The pilots had not applied aft cyclic at the time the engine quit, they had gone for airspeed – Pete Gillies”]
In the episode:
02:04 Competition for a custom aviation drawing
03:00 Listener comment Andy, 28 SQN OCU
04:20 B206 engine start clip last episode
05:50 Old Bell Helicopters magazine article, 1975 – ‘Keep the rotor in the green’ – redundant?
09:20 Studying accident reports – LAPD Astar overrunning clutch failure
11:15 MD500D ran out of fuel then crash wreckage
15:40 1992 MD500E engine failure on takeoff with crash onto busy road
20:55 Sherif MD600 steep 180 turn following engine failure
25:10 Law enforcement recurrency training using crash photos – lightbulb moment!
28:40 “Immediately put the collective down and immediately nosed over to get airspeed”
30:20 The aircraft were turning left due to below green rotor RPM – retreating blade stall
33:00 Impact on Vne of low rotor RPM
35:00 Emphasis at the time on airspeed in RFM
36:30 Fixed wing comparison
38:45 Reaction time and immediate actions
41:00 Overrunning clutch – engine overspeed but rotor blades slowing
42:00 ‘Aft Cyclic’
44:10 Autorotation training changes
48:15 Completely consumed with the mission and not thinking about engine failure
50:10 The helicopter is happiest in autorotation
51:30 Multiengine helicopters and applicability of ‘Cyclic Back’
53:20 Engine off vs engine idling training autorotations
1:00:20 ‘Aft cyclic’ to be in print, training programs and RFM
1:02:30 Advice on a real world engine failure from Pete
1:08:50 Thanks to Doug Williams
Chapter 43 ‘Autorotation Concerns’ of Helicopter Aerodynamics Volume II by Ray Prouty also cites Pete Gillies when talking about the need to instigate airflow into the disc during autorotation entry in forward flight.
The following is an analogy penned by Randy Rowles, 2013 HAI Instructor of the Year, that provides another approach to discussing the application of aft cyclic in an autorotation entry. “First, I would like to add to Mr. Pete Gillie’s (Chief Pilot, Western Helicopters) comments regarding the importance of applying aft cyclic when entering an autorotation. As a longtime flight instructor, I couldn’t agree more with Pete as I’m sure most experienced instructors within the helicopter industry would as well. The key to getting the point across on such subjects is providing an example that is relevant to the topic.
I would suggest we provide an example taken from a baseball analogy. Applying aft cyclic when entering an autorotation is a key consideration because you want to present the rotor system to the changing relative wind. This is very similar to explaining HOW to catch a ball in a glove. In simple terms, you MUST present the open glove to the ball for the glove to function.
To properly catch a ball, the glove must be open and presented so that the ball will hit the glove in the pocket. If the glove is face down, the ball will hit the glove and be driven to the ground. If the glove is held upside down, the ball may roll up the glove and hit the person in the mouth, both non-desirable outcomes.
So you see…an analogy of catching a ball in a glove presents the reader with a basic fundamental principle of the interaction of the ball in flight, and how to properly engage the design of a glove to catch the ball. The rotor system works exactly the same way. No matter what the speed of the aircraft, the rotor system MUST immediately be presented to the airflow through the use of aft cyclic during all autorotative entries.”
Custom drawing competition – Final hours
Your chance to win a custom aviation drawing my Marc Veenendaal is almost gone. Leave a comment on Episode 39 about your first helicopter experience to go into the draw.
Do you have an opinion on ‘Cyclic Back’ or additional information to share? Perhaps you’ve had an engine failure and can share how it turned out. Join in the conversation below in the comments
Texas Rotorwing Academy operates 2 of the 8 Cabri G2 helicopters currently in the United States.
The Guimbal Cabri G2 helicopter has a lot going for it. One of the type’s biggest fans is Joey Arena of Texas Rotorwing Academy. Joey operates two Cabris with another two on order.
The Guimbal Cabri G2 is a two-seat light piston-engined helicopter designed by Bruno Guimbal, a former Eurocopter engineer. The aircraft are built in a factory just down the road from Airbus in France and incorporate many of the design features found in larger Airbus helicopters.
In this episode Joey talks us through some of the things that make the Cabri G2 different from other 2 seat training helicopters and the general anatomy of the design.
Joey got into the flying game in 2008 after working in other industries for a number of years and using the global financial slowdown as the push to make a change. Several years later he made the 2,300 mile trip from Texas to Precision Helicopters in Oregon to check out the first Cabri G2s in to the US and was hooked. He then put an order in for 4 of the machines at the next Heli-Expo.
[Tweet “I decided to be a helicopter pilot when I was 6 years old – Joey Arena”]
01:25 H-37 Mojave helicopter photo
02:45 Westpac Life Saving QLD BO105 live hoist training
03:10 Top 10 Helicopter books for helicopter aircrew
03:30 Competition to win a custom aviation drawing – episode 39
04:40 2 seat training helicopters increasing choices
05:20 Joey Arena is a big fan of the Cabri G2
05:50 Rotating the helicopter sound clip before the interview
07:05 Getting to a helicopter career
08:28 8 Cabri G2s in the United States
10:04 Visiting the factory in France and factory training
11:47 75 aircraft a year production rate, 3 construction bays
13:30 First time seeing a Cabri and overview
16:10 Relationship between Airbus and Guimbal
18:00 Maintenance requirements
19:11 Lycoming O360 Engine – 1 magneto and 1 Electro-plasma system
20:05 Automatic carb heat system
22:00 Engine governor, throttle detent and collective correlation, fuel burn
25:10 Fenestron tail rotor design – ducted fan
27:20 Main rotor system
30:26 Autorotative potential energy, rotor inertia
32:20 Straight in auto procedure
35:00 Availability of parts and support, back order
37:45 Cargo space and Weight&Balance – 611 lbs useful load
38:50 Cabin layout and control feel
43:20 Dashboard and instrumentation
46:10 Engine mount and rotor engagement hydraulic ram
47:35 Landing gear, attachment points to fuselage, slope landings, ground resonance
51:30 Fenestron fan safety features
53:05 Crash protection design of the seats – rated for 2200fpm impact and 95% chance of survivability
57:40 Build process video showing the factory process
58:05 Win a custom aviation drawing by commenting on episode 39
58:40 World Helicopter Day
59:28 Episode Sponsors trainmorepilots.com
[Tweet “If you look at a Cabri your jaw hits the ground because it is absolutely stunning”]
Video – Building a Cabri G2 at the Guimbal factory in France
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Cockpit layout in the Cabri – you can smell the ‘newness’
[Tweet “The Cabri G2 is certified to hover in a crosswind of greater than 50 kts”]
Sling load training in the Cabri G2
This is another image from the Instagram account of aviation artist Marc Veenendaal. Leave a comment on the Episode 39 blog post to go into the random draw to win for your own custom image from Marc.
Shawn Coyle is an experienced helicopter test pilot with a passion for helping other pilots learn more about their profession.
Whether you walk away from a landing after an helicopter engine failure or not depends on many things but one good predictor is the Height Velocity(H/V) diagram.
The H/V diagram (also known as H/V curve and dead man’s curve) represents combinations of airspeeds and altitudes that have been determined for that helicopter type where it will be difficult or impossible to safely land the helicopter.
But how is the diagram or chart arrived at?
What are the conditions it is tested under?
In this episode of the Rotary Wing Show test pilot Shawn Coyle takes us in great detail through the diagram and the machinations that go into building one. Shawn’s experience ranges from civil and military operational flying to certification flight testing and training experimental test pilots.
An author of several well know helicopter books Shawn also on occasion acts as an expert witness and on crash investigations.
After listening to this episode you will have a much greater understanding of how the H/V diagram is derived, what it means for your flying operations and probably a reluctance to let your hover height drift upwards.
In this week’s episode:
01:20 Weather extremes on social media streams
01:48 Listener voicemail
03:25 Hello to our Croatian listener!
04:00 Height velocity diagram
05:50 Guest Shawn Coyle bio
06:06 Early start to flying in Air Cadets
06:47 Jet training then sent to helicopters
08:16 Freedom of action as a helicopter pilot
09:20 Test pilot school
11:42 Flying with the Brits
15:10 Writing books on helicopters
18:14 Automatic flight control systems
27:05 What is a height velocity diagram
27:50 Conditions used to record results
29:35 Where do you go to perform tests?
30:45 Other names for the curve and misnomers – ‘dead man’s curve’
32:41 Background of the diagram
33:28 Engine failure rates and lack of data
35:10 3 engine failures for Shawn
36:50 Delayed pilot response built into the height velocity diagram
41:03 Low hover point test technique
42:43 Impact of aging aircraft on curve
44:06 Number of data points required to construct the diagram
45:20 Verification process by certification authority
45:50 Paved level surface for touchdown, no zero touchdown requirement
47:10 What happens if you test on grass….
48:45 The scariest point to test and amount of nose down
50:34 Insurance impact of the height velocity diagram and limitation vs performance consideration
52:20 Low altitude, high speed section of the diagram
53:30 Best advice when you have to operate in shaded area
54:45 Applicability for approaches and arrivals
55:55 Ray Prouty dinner story
57:18 Piece of advice that you would pass on
59:20 2015 plans and travel
1:00:30 Little Book of Autorotations by Shawn Coyle
1:01:50 Sponsors trainmorepilots.com
1:02:10 WorldHelicopterDay.com
Shawn speaks at the CHC 2013 Safety Conference about the certification process
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[Tweet ““Measuring with a micrometer, marking with a chalk line and cutting with a chainsaw””]
[Tweet ““Know exactly what the symptoms are and exactly what you are going to do””]
[Tweet ““Never seen a helicopter say beat me, I love it!! (more than Blackhawk)””] Have a question for Shawn or topics that you would like him to cover? Let us know in the comments.
