crm Archives - The Rotary Wing Show Podcast

Adrian Park is an experienced military and rescue helicopter pilot who is currently completing a phd thesis in aviation human factors and communication.

A podcast that I get a lot of value from is the Jocko Podcast which deals in leadership, mindsets, ju jitsu, military history and has nothing to do with helicopters… or does it. In this episode I chat with Adrian Park a former Australian army helicopter pilot and now EMS pilot who has a special interest in aviation safety and human factors about how some of the material Jocko Willink talks about relates to aviation.

Extreme Ownership is a book written by Leif Babin and Jocko Willink (host of podcast mentioned above) who are both ex-US Navy SEALs who held leadership roles during deployments in Iraq and later in SEAL training units.

The book details some of the leadership lessons they learnt that they see as applicable to leadership in any situation. Their examples start with a military example from their own experience and then apply that in a business setting.

Today I’m talking with Adrian Park and we break down some of the ideas in the book and discuss how they play out in an aviation context with examples from our own experiences.

Adrian Park (right) next to an Australian Army Huey in Bougainville. The bright orange paint scheme was part of the peace keeping role.

Adrian or ‘Parky’ has a background in Australian Army Huey and Blackhawk operations along with experience flying in the EMS sector. Along the way he has picked up a Bach. of English Literature and Communication (something he has in common with Jocko Willink) and is working towards his PhD.

Parky is a frequent article contributor to Flight Safety magazine here in Australia, runs crew resource management training, has been involved in youth leadership development and also hosts an aviation podcast. A busy guy! But someone with a lot of helicopter experience paired with some thoughtfulness on the application of leadership and human factors in how we go about our operations.

Some of the ideas we discuss are:

Extreme ownership
– If mindset of victim of circumstance then you can’t have any input to fixing
– accepting feedback
– not blaming people / weather / aircraft
– admitting to and owning mistakes/errors
– opposite of ‘someone else’s problem’
– if someone tells you to do something that you know is a bad idea, and you do it and it turns out bad, you’re still responsible for the outcome.
– implications for accident investigations / companies that have accidents / forum discussion

Detach
– long term view rather than short term task pressure
– viable company/career in 5 years over any single task
– EMS operations and weather decisions
– risk vs reward

Check Your Ego
– proving your skill / pushing on
– unnecessary risks
– putting others down for mistakes
– not seeking input
– not accepting feedback and constructive criticism

Cover and Move (Teamwork)
– crew, ops, atc
– back others up
– share information
– help them do their job
– mateship

We end up running out of time to cover everything that we had in our notes – look out for a part 2 sometime in the future.

Adrian during an exchange posting to the US working as a Blackhawk instructor

This is the first time both of us have discussed this topic/content as it relates to the book Extreme Ownership. If you are familiar with the book or with Jocko’s other ideas and can share aviation examples of your own we would love you to add to the comments section here on the blog post.

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Links from this week’s episode:
Support the podcast on Patreon
World Helicopter Day – Register Your Event
Cancel Sarwatch Podcast
Resonate Safety Solutions – CRM Training and Consultancy
Jocko Podcast

On the ramp in East Timor with a Blackhawk from B SQN, 5 Avn Regt. Hopefully these aircraft can continue in a flying role when retired from the Australian Army

Be part of the conversation by leaving a comment below.

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helicopter crew resource management randy mains — Randy Mains has operated across many parts of the helicopter industry (military, mustering, instructing, EMS, VIP and more). He has a special interest in helicopter crew resource management.

As helicopter systems, engineering and processes continue to get safer, the human component becomes the focus to further improvements in accident rates. Randy Mains shares his 20 CRM Diamonds in this interview.

Randy Mains was 22 years old when he deployed to Vietnam to fly UH-1H Hueys. On return to the US with over 1000 combat flight hours and a Distinguished Flying Cross (Randy shares the story of this in the interview) he found the US helicopter market flooded with other returned aircrew.

A night with a friend over a shared case of Australian beer resulted with Randy flying in Australia on remote outback cattle stations before a stint in PNG.

Later, souring of Iranian international relationships saw Randy leaving a Bell instructor trainer position on the last civil flight out of Iran. Taking up an emergency medical services (EMS) pilot role in Texas then became the start of Randy’s long and continued focus in this part of the industry. It is where much of the focus of his books and CRM training efforts are focused.

In the US the EMS sector seems to have a high proportion of single engine, single pilot VFR/IFR operations compared with twin engine, two pilot IFR operations in other countries. He has had a number of close calls himself including inadvertent IMC (flying into cloud) and approaching to night flare lit sites with overhead wires.

Randy’s later experiences flying in the middle east and simulator check and training with pilots from around the world gave him the chance to see how EMS is done in other countries.

Since then Randy has returned to the US with a focus on reducing the EMS accident rate and with in the helicopter industry in general. Randy is a regular columnist with Rotorcraft Pro magazine, a speaker at medical and helicopter events, author and runs a Crew Resource Management Instructor course focused on helicopters.

Podcast: Subscribe in iTunes | Play in new window | Download

Links from this week’s episode:
Support the show on Patreon
Crew Resource Management Instructor Course
Randy Main’s Website

crew resource management error chain — “Antennas Up” – a visual prompt to remaining vigilant and looking for a link in the error chain forming

Do you have a question for Randy about helicopter crew resource management or about something mentioned in the episode that you want to ask? Be part of the conversation by leaving a comment below.

Tag: crm

RWS 66 – Extreme Ownership Book Review with Adrian Park

RWS 60 – 20 Crew Resource Management Diamonds with Randy Mains